Women Who Travel

Women Who Travel Podcast: A ‘Vogue’ Editor's Packing Secrets

Host Lale Arikoglu sits down with fashion expert Chloe Malle to get to the bottom of how to pack—and what to pack it in.
Women Who Travel Podcast A ‘Vogue Editor's Packing Secrets

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Should I check my luggage or carry-on? Fold or roll? Bring one pair of shoes or...seven? Packing for a trip, when done well, can feel like an art form—yet one that few of us seem to have figured out. This week, Chloe Malle, the new editor of Vogue.com and the host of Vogue’s podcast The Run-Through with Vogue, joins Lale in the studio to dish her packing wisdom—and answer listeners' burning questions.

Lale Arikoglu: Welcome to Women Who Travel. I'm Lale Arikoglu. I'm very excited because today we're recording an episode I've wanted to make for a long time, and that's how to pack with help from Vogue. I'm joined today by CM. She's the new editor of Vogue.com and the host of Vogue's podcast, The Runthrough With Vogue. Welcome, Chloe.

Chloe Malle: Thank you, Lale. I'm so excited to be here. I love talking about packing.

LA: Don't we all?

CM: [laughs]

LA: Or at least, I love complaining about packing.

CM: [laughs]

LA: Um, so we have a lot of questions in our inbox from listeners and some from your listeners too, great. So I would love to start talking about you and your relationship to travel. Working for Vogue, obviously, makes anyone think you're going to be traveling around the world for your job. I don't know if that's true, but I'm interested to know what your relationship to travel is both in your personal life and in work.

CM: So I was very lucky growing up. It was very much just my mom and I living together and my father lived ... We lived in Los Angeles. My father lived in Paris, so we traveled often from when I was very little to see him and so, I feel like my mother and I were always, uh, a good travel team. Um, although she, now that I have young kids, has reminded me that she used to travel in, uh, matching ponchos for me and her because I vomited so often that she would have extra clothing and full ponchos, uh, like, through the airport. Which doesn't sound as glamorous as my memory of it, but

LA: I was going to say, this transatlantic trip to Paris.

CM: Yes, exactly.

LA: ... not, not as chic as one would-

CM: No.

LA: ... quite imagine.

CM: It's like a Paddington—

LA: [laughs]

CM: ... situation. [laughs] But I traveled a lot as a young adult. After college, I lived in the Horn of Africa for a year and traveled a lot in that region. And I think the different regions that you travel in, there's different rules for the best way to travel, and so I think that you learn a lot when a different city is your hub. So if I'm traveling places from New York, I have different approaches than when I'm traveling from [inaudible 00:02:10] or if I'm traveling from Paris.

For work, I've worked at Vogue, um, in some capacity since 2011, and I have taken some incredible trips for stories for Vogue, and I'm very grateful for that. I do think that even though people think of Vogue as just glamorous, uh, fashion week travel, I have gotten to do some really, for me, interesting trips. So I went to a fascinating trip to Honduras with the shoe designer, Tabitha Simmons, because she was doing a collaboration with Toms Shoes and that was amazing. I actually went back to Ethiopia to write about these three, um, sisters who are Olympian runners. That was a great trip. I went, uh, motoring through the Tuscan countryside with a, um, vintage car collecting group of women. I drove from Kentucky to D.C. with the Sunrise Movement, which is a, a group of young climate activists. I'm someone who still, even if I'm going to ... you know, I went to El Paso for a story last week. And even just going to El Paso, there's something so exciting to me about the fact that someone pays me to go somewhere to do this thing that I love doing. So I, I love traveling for work.

LA: How do you think all of that kind of trained you for traveling for these features? You know, traveling for those sorts of jobs can be ... It's incredibly hectic and really intense, uh, if you're traveling for a story. Kind of, what's your process for when you get on the ground and ... How do you tackle it?

CM: To me, that's the most fun part of writing a story, is reporting it and the actual trip, and being with whoever you're interviewing, and being in the new place. Writing it, I really feel strongly about what Dorothy Parker always said, which was, "No one likes writing. Everyone likes having written." And I really find, like, the two weeks when I'm actually hammering out a story, just painful and awful for everyone around me. But the reporting part of the journey and the actual trip itself, I think, is a delight. The only ... The, the ver The stressful part is the actual interview where you have one to two hours to get everything you need and that can be hard, and there's often a lot of diplomacy involved with publicists and time constraints or if it's overlapping with the photo shoot, how your getting time if the photo shoot runs late. So it's really getting through that day, and making sure you get what you need, and sort of advocating for yourself to get the time you need to make the story work. And that, I think, is the trickiest part of work travel.

LA: What has been your favorite place that you've gone to for these sorts of trips? You listed off an incredible mix of places. They've all been so different and for such different types of stories and

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... people.

CM: I did a profile of Whitney Wolfe Herd who's the founder of Bumble and it was ... The news peg was that they were launching Bumble India, and I went with Whitney to Delhi, and Jaipur, and Mumbai. And I love India, and I'd been before. But it was just such a treat to go for work, and they had a series of incredible launch events for Bumble India and it was just a feast for the senses, and so I, I really love doing that. I really respect Whitney. I had a lot of time with her and a lot of access. So it was a successful reporting trip and also just a treat.

LA: It must be really interesting, you know, 'cause I travel a lot, obviously, for stories, but often it's quite solitary in that

CM: Mm.

LA: ... you know, I just got back from a sample, and I was there on my own reporting. So I had a lot of people to meet with and experiences to do, and s- and, and lots of interviews along the way. But there wasn't what sounds like with you where you're getting to kind of spend, like, really intimate time with some…

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... of these people. Like, to be traveling around multiple cities in India with—

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... someone that you've just met—

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... that's, like, a very intense form of group travel.

CM: Totally, and it's unique, and it's a bond that really stands the test of time. You know, uh, Whitney was working with a publicist who I've known for a long time 'cause he came from the fashion world, and now he owns his own agency. But, I mean, Malcolm and I truly traveled from Newark all the way through for a week together, and I just ... I feel so intimate with Malcolm now who's, who's really just a, you know, a work associate but someone who now I feel [laughs] very close to because we've been in a lot of airport [laughs] lounges together.

LA: I was gonna say, there's nothing like sitting, waiting for a delayed flight with someone that was once

CM: Totally.

LA: ... a stranger.

CM: Totally.

LA: [laughs]

CM: And, I mean, thank god. I adore Malcolm, and we had a wonderful time. But, like, imagine if it had been someone I found extremely irritating. [laughs]

LA: [laughs]

CM: Um

LA: Which can sometimes be the case.

CM: Totally.

LA: How do you get ready for a trip?

CM: So it absolutely depends on the location and the purpose of it. I recently went for my, like, party mom [inaudible 00:07:00] to my cousin's wedding in Oaxaca in March.

LA: Sounds great.

CM: And it was fabulous, and they planned it beautifully. But I always travel ... unless I'm with my children, which is definitely not a carry on situation. But I always travel with ... I have a Rimowa. I think they're called the Salsa, the little ones. It's truly ... It's, like, the most amortized thing [laughs] in my home. Like, I have had that for 10 years. They repair it for free if it breaks. I've had wheels break before. [laughs]

LA: I've been so actually fascinated to know what it's like to own a Rimowa because they tout themselves as these kind of, like, investment pieces that you have once, and you keep the same suitcase forever. They've survived war zones and—

CM: Uh, i- it's actually ... and, like, Rimowa, if you're listening, I ... sponsor me because ... Uh, actually, you don't even have to because I've never had to replace it. [laughs] But my husband and I got them, I think, like, for each other, like, right when we ... like, maybe 15 years ago. A- and we've each repaired our wheels twice. They ... It's been free repairs. They've gone fro- with me, like, to Ethiopia, to, um, Oaxaca, to Honduras, like, bumpy roads, unpaved roads. Um, and somehow there's something about the material that it just, you can get so much stuff in. Actually, I had a horrible experience, uh, leaving Texas two weeks ago where, like, an idiot, um ... Someone had given me a candle on the story and it got flagged, something in, like, the wax. So they flagged me. They had to open my bag at TSA, and I said quite loudly, "Be careful when you open it, it's gonna explode."

LA: [laughs]

CM: And it truly was full lockdown at El Paso TSA. [laughs] And I had to explain to them that I'm just a moron who said that about my overstuffed bag. [laughs]

LA: The one person that said the word explode going through TSA.—

CM: Of course.

LA: [laughs]

CM: So I was there for hours. I mean, thank god I'm, I'm always early. But, um, all that to say, the Rimowa bags really do take an explosive amount of things, like ... And so, I will pack always in that bag, if it's like, the Oaxaca wedding ... I love a warm weather trip because you can pack sandals, dresses, nothing else. Much harder for me is, like, last year I went to Paris in the winter for, like, four days. How do you get boots, jacket, winter clothing, knits in a carry on? For me, it's ... I pack in a palette. So I'm packing in shades of one color or two colors. So I think that trip I did navy and gray. And it's usually around, like, a coat I'm excited about, um, or a pair of shoes I'm excited about.

LA: Are you wearing the coat onto the plane?

CM: Yes.

LA: Okay.

CM: Absolutely. But then your plane outfit has to be in that palette, which isn't always easy. Another palette I'll do is, like, brown and navy. Usually, navy is one of them. [laughs] Uh, I'm not, I'm no- I don't wear a lot of black, so that's rarely black. But sometimes it'll be, like, black and tan, if I have, like, a great camel jacket I'm excited about.

LA: But for the most part, these are all quite, like, muted tones.

CM: Completely.

LA: Easy to work with.

CM: It's not like ... I'm not doing, like, a full Barbie Rimowa packing situation, but having ... I don't know. Like, if you ... If I have gray things and brown things, it's harder for me to wear those together. Like, I have to ... I- I'm not planning out the, the full look ahead of time. So I have to have things that are gonna double work a little bit over time.

LA: Yeah.

CM: I have this great silk cat print scarf that was my Mom's that's navy with, like, brown and orange cats on it. And that has been great for, like, tying together a brown and navy [laughs] palette.

LA: [laughs]

CM: So I feel like there are sometimes, like, one or two pieces that are marrying your [laughs]-

LA: I love that.

CM: ... the colors in your palette. [laughs]

LA: Yeah, I think I've accepted that I actually can wear things more than once on a trip.

CM: [laughs]

LA: I don't know why I thought for a long time, like, I'm always, like, sort of worn this several times

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... still haven't washed it. [inaudible 00:10:52]

CM: Oh, no. I don't believe in washing most things.

LA: Yeah, uh, and yet

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... somehow on a trip, I'm like, well, I have to have an outfit per day, and then maybe something for each evening.

CM: Oh, no, no, no.

LA: I've learned the hard way.

CM: Yeah.

LA: I'm a carry on girl now.

CM: Yeah.

LA: I take minimal things.

CM: My one thing that I just can't seem to get my head around, and it wouldn't ... it's such a vanity thing, and I, I just can't do it, is running shoes. I can't wear them on the plane.

LA: Oh, me too.

CM: I just can't do it, and they take up so much room. And it's so silly because the, like, pair of loafers I'm wearing on the plane would be much easier to pack, but I, I just, uh, I don't know. I, I also, I very ... I wear running shoes that I like because they support my feet but not because I like the way they look. So I'm just

LA: No, I have the complete same thing, and I ... I recently was on a work trip to Istanbul and crammed my running shoes, which honestly didn't even use the whole trip, um, into my suitcase 'cause I didn't wanna wear them

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... on the plane. And they took up really valuable real estate.

CM: I know.

LA: And I was even wearing sneakers on the plane.

CM: I know.

LA: I just ... But I was wearing

CM: I know.

LA: ... my cool ones.

CM: Exactly. No, no, it's a hu- And then you see the, like, 28-year-old bros who tie their sneakers, their running shoes to their backpack or their suitcase, and I can't be that person. But I get it. So the running shoes is a problem for me, but that's an extremely important ... Like, some of my favorite memories visiting places are running alone discovering that place the morning of my interview.

LA: Interesting. Do you think that's because it's ... I've ... I find running really meditative, so I imagine, like, if you're kind of, like ... you're, you're wanting to, like, relax and get into the sense of the place, but you also wanna relax before you're doing a big interview.

CM: Yeah. For me, it's also geographic. Like, because of Google Maps, it's very rare now that I go to a place, and I have to map out where I'm going 'cause I'm getting in a taxi, or an Uber, or someone's picking me up. And it's such a nice way to understand the layout of a city, especially a, like, a walkable, a runnable city. It's, like, you have to actually know where you're going. You have to get back to your hotel. So I am ... I mean, in Oaxaca, it was, like, I did a 30-minute run, and I had seen all of downtown Oaxaca. I knew then where I wanted to go back to when I did my, like, sightseeing morning, later that day. Like, it was almost ... It's almost like a prep trip. It's like you're going out, you're canvassing what needs to be seen later, and that i- I find very important, and it's always the memories I think back of, back to.

LA: All right. We're going to take a short break, and then we'll be back to answer your packing questions. Okay. Well, clearly, you're an expert packer or at least you've learned a lof-, a lot of lessons.

CM: I have a lot of thoughts.

LA: You have a lot of thoughts, a lot of anecdotes I'm sure you can bring to the table.

CM: [laughs]

LA: And a little bit of guidance. Um, so I figured we could maybe start diving into some of the packing questions.

CM: Please.

Mia: Hi, my name is Mia, and my question is actually a two-parter. First, what is the best method for packing multiple outfits in one carry-on? And two, how best to prepare for or prevent wrinkling while packing, especially when having limited access to a steamer?

CM: Okay. So I have a lot of thoughts about this. I'm gonna make ... I'm gonna take a leap and think that this is maybe special occasion packing. So let's say if I am packing for a wedding, and I'm not sure about what the hotel situation is, or if I'm at an Airbnb, or staying with a friend, I actually ... 'Cause I have done some styling work too at Vogue, I have a great ... a very small steamer. There's a lot of very good travel steamers, and I feel like people immediately are, like, oh my god, I wouldn't dare pack a steamer. But I, I don't do ... I don't ever pack a hair styling tool, so I feel like that's my swap. I'd rather have a steamer than not. That said, I also have packed dresses with wrinkles in mind and done, like, a chiffon rather than a silk or satin, which shows wrinkles more. So, I mean, there's different options there. Obviously, packing with tissue paper ostensibly makes a difference.

LA: Oh, that's—

CM: That's always been my mom's, like, great packing thing, is that you fold, uh, on top of tissue paper. But I find that if ... like, especially for a long dress, that can just ... It's too much fabric and it ca- It still will look wrinkled, so I am a big fan of the travel steamer. I do find that most hotels have a steamer, and I often will email the hotel ahead of time to put a hold on a steamer because there's nothing worse than, like, 5:00 p.m. before the wedding and there's no steamers available. So I will say, like, even the morning of or beforehand ... like, I went to a wedding in, like, Como last year, last summer, and I knew that all of these bitches were gonna be

LA: [laughs]

CM: ... doing steamers. So I was like, I want that steamer, and I can have it the day before, but I need it, and that was really helpful 'cause they were like, "Great, we've actually had a few requests. We'll make sure that you're

LA: That is so smart. I've never thought of actually just steaming—

CM: Steam ahead.

LA: ... ahead. Steam a- Full steam ahead.

CM: [laughs] Um, next question for packing f- different outfits. I think it's a very good question. My biggest issue with that is footwear. Two things. Let's, let's say that you're going to a wedding and there's three events. You're doing Friday night. Maybe there's a day event Saturday or Sunday, and then there's Saturday, the actual wedding. If one dress is long, and you're not gonna see my footwear a lot, I will make the sacrifice of the shoes I would prefer to wear for a pair of shoes that I can wear to one of the other two events. So for example, like, I wore a floor length dress to this wedding in Oaxaca. I would have preferred to wear, like, a gold, prettier sandal, but instead I wore the wedge espadrilles that I wore to the dinner the night before because you could see them more the night before and it was important to have [inaudible 00:16:37].

LA: I have, I have a similar tactic. I have, like, a couple of just, like, workhorse heels.

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... that look, that I, that I kind of sty- if it, if it's a wedding.

CM: Yeah.

LA: I'll style my wedding day outfit around those heels. C

M: Yeah.

LA: And then just kinda choose some outfits that I know will kinda work with them.

CM: Yes. I'm also a big fan of flats for social occasions and those pack better. I find that I have more fun at an event when I'm wearing a flat, and I actually wrote a piece a few years ago for The Wall Street Journal about how flats are here to stay for evening, and I saw a lot of ... in my research, a lot of great black tie flats, jeweled flats and jeweled flats, pearl flats, uh, beaded flats. And I, I think that you can really dress up a flat sandal and those you can pack two or three pairs of flat sandals, and you're good to go.

LA: That's a revelation. I am only now in my 30s getting out of the insecurities of my height.

CM: Yeah.

LA: I'm on the shorter side.

CM: Oh my god, it's so liberating. And it's really liberating for the space in your carry-on.

LA: Yes.

CM: [laughs]

LA: Yeah, just slip them down the side.

CM: Yeah.

LA: So easy.

CM: I mean, look, I also have friends who have, uh, hanging bags that have, like, pockets in them. So that sort of will work as your second carry-on. I don't like to do that. I just pack everything folded with tissue paper and a steamer. Um, I do have a big secondary carry-on I take, which is usu- It's a Paravel weekend duffel, I think, or weekend tote.

LA: Is it the fold-up one?

CM: No, but I love

LA: Oh.

CM: ... that one.

LA: I love the fold-up one.

CM: That's actually a packing secret of mine

LA: That's my secret weapon.

CM: ... is that I, I actually bring that Paravel fold-up duffel to ... on every trip. Because if I shop, and I buy things, then I just check

LA: I do the exact same

CM: ... one of them.

LA: ... thing. And for context for listeners who aren't familiar with it, it is basically what it says on the tin. It is a duffel that folds up into a little square sort of parcel, and you can slip it into your hand luggage or the bottom of your suitcase, and you can fit a lot in it when you-

CM: Absolutely.

LA: ... on your return trip.

CM: The Paravel weekender, I have it in blue. It's monogrammed. It's great because I can either just have computer, book, and I put my little crossbody purse in there, so that I only have two. But if I'm going to a wedding, and I really only want a carry-on, I can also put running shoes at the bottom, a pashmina at the bottom that will also transfer to my wedding pashmina. I, I just think that if you have a roomy enough secondary carry-on, like, your handbag, then you can put a lot of your weekend outfits in there or weekend ... Let's say you can store a lot of the accessories. [laughs]

LA: Okay. Next question is from Audra, which is a very, very quick one, but I would say almost an existential one, which is, rolling versus folding.

CM: Interesting. So I actually ... Different clothes, different answer. I find that the indentations formed by the, uh, bars of the rolling suitcase mean that I roll my t-shirts and my running clothes to form a base.

LA: Oh, that is so smart 'cause those bars. They get me

CM: The bars are hard.

LA: ... every time.

CM: Yeah. So I roll ... T-shirts and running clothes, uh, I roll on the bottom to get to a flat mark, and then I fold. I don't know why. I- I'm a fan of rolling. I just, I prefer sweaters and other things.

LA: Well, I think

CM: Well, and I also, I wouldn't roll a button down or a dress. I just wouldn't.

LA: And it also really does depend on the fabric. Like, I'm not rolling a

CM: Totally.

LA: ... pair of jeans. They-

CM: Oh, no, no.

LA: They fo- I- if they're, if ... Especially if they're sort of freshly laundered, they can fold pretty flat

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... um, and provide quite a good base, I find.

CM: Yes.

LA: But I also have ... Like, I have this, like, number six silk dress that—

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... or some sort of fake silk because it never creases. So that's something I roll up so it's super, super small, and I just

CM: Right.

LA: ... stuff it down the side. But that doesn't work for everything.

CM: Yeah.

LA: So yeah, I guess it's a little bit [inaudible 00:20:32]. Have haven't necessarily answered that question, but I, I agree. Okay, so from another listener, Kate. She asks about the best way to go about packing shoes, which I feel like we've already touched on. But she also says she has the same question for jackets and that's something that I struggle with.

CM: Oof. It's very, very hard.

LA: Summer, fine, easy peasy. Winter. Firstly, I hate wearing a coat onto the plane, and you've got to stuff it up in the hold and [inaudible 00:20:59]-

CM: You're not cold enough to just use as a blanket?

LA: Sometimes, no, 'cause I also, I have my, like, my sort of cozy clothes. I don't know. It's just ... I have this big-

CM: You're right.

LA: I have this big coat. I think it's specifically going home to London at Christmas, and I don't know what to do with this bloody coat. But I need it for when I'm there, and then also being kind of lumbered with one coat or jacket the whole time.

CM: Right.

LA: Do you try and even put one in your suitcase?

CM: Absolutely not. Would never do it. Actually, I interviewed Cynthia Rowley once years ago, and she was like, "I want to invent a puffer that zips to be a pillow for the plane." [laughs]

LA: Yes.

CM: And it's a great [laughs] idea.

LA: Genius. [laughs]

CM: [laughs] I am very committed to one coat or [inaudible 00:21:38]. I, I also ... I mean, keep in mind, I can't imagine just because of the way my life is right now, like, I can't imagine a trip more than five days.

LA: Mm-hmm.

CM: So I, I just ... I can't imagine that I would need more than one coat. I mean, the, the, the hurdle that I come up against is, like, a blazer or a, a jacket versus a coat. So I want a coat, but I also maybe want a blazer. Like, let's say I'm going to Europe in November. It could go either way and that, I think, is hard. I, I mean, this is very specific and not super helpful, but I have this spectacular Dries van Noten coat that is a blazer, and then an overcoat that buttons onto it. So you can either wear it the full coat or either one by themselves and that's been amazing for me for traveling. But I ... Just, folding up jackets, it just never ends well. So I really think wear your coat, suffer through the plane ride. Use it as a blanket. Get to the other side and build your wardrobe around that.

What I will say is, like, colleagues who travel for the collections, if you're checking a bag, go forth. Pack as many coats as you want. Just throw them in there. That's what everyone does. I get it. You need more then. If you're trying

to do carry-on, and you're only going for five days, build your wardrobe around jacket and wear it on the plane.

LA: I think, I think this is part of my problem, is that I am always, like, so set on carry-on and never checking

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... that I then, I'm, I'm immediately limiting myself.

CM: Yeah.

LA: And that's my choice that's

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... that I've made for myself.

CM: Yes, exactly.

LA: Okay, and next question from Sarah. Wants to know about toiletries strategies. This is something that I find that I've pretty much cracked. Um, I have my—

CM: What's yours? Okay.

LA: Firstly, it's managing to bring too many on the plane but not getting them thrown away.

CM: Yeah.

LA: I feel like I've, I've got my little kind of things that I empty out my favorite products into and keep them small. Not great for the environment, but I always use face wipes when I'm traveling

CM: Mm.

LA: ... because it means that I don't have to bring my bottle of cleanser with me.

CM: Mm.

LA: But at the same time, I find it difficult on the way back 'cause I have to check my bag 'cause I've usually bought some toiletries.

CM: Uh, there's just nothing more devastating than having an over three ounce bottle

LA: ... of, like

CM: ... confiscated.

LA: ... beautiful perfume.

CM: The worst part about it, to be honest, is that they can't keep it.

LA: Right.

CM: They're not allowed to keep it. So like, I can see this, like, lovely young woman at TSA, like, eyeing this Chanel serum that this ... And it's truly just being thrown away. It's devastating. Anyway.

LA: [laughs]

CM: Um, I find the toiletry part challenging. Uh, there's a great, like, three-in-one skin salve that our beauty editor, Arden Fanning, just turned us onto on ... when she was on the po- podcast, which is called Bonjou. And it started by this woman who's a former French pharmacist and it's a skin serum, skin bal- It sort of does everything. So I am a fan of these sort of do everything products. I will often make things work for multiple uses. Like, for example, you know, if I wanna smooth my hair out, I'll use just a, a lotion kind of thing, which is gross and makes your hair greasy, but at least I don't have to bring frizz whatever.

LA: I rely on hotel shampoo and conditioner to cut down on what I'm bringing, which isn't always great because it means ... especially if I'm, like, bopping around a few different places.

CM: Yeah.

LA: Your hair reacts in different ways.

CM: Yeah.

LA: It's that something you plan for or

CM: So I, first of all, don't wash my hair very often. I put conditioner in, and I don't often wash it. I will bring a travel size conditioner mostly because I just get stressed about wasting, like, the little ... the packing and the plastic of it. But I also, I have one of those reusable bottles that are travel size, and I'll just squeeze some of my condition into there. But then I use the conditioner. That's my conditioner, and then I'll use it as, like, my styling cream also. I like to have two smaller bags of toiletries rather than one bigger bag. I love the ... Cuyana makes these great leather, um, zip, uh, make up cases that ... They, they're quite structured, so they stand up on their own. Um, and you can see everything that's in them, and they're two different sizes. So I'll do

LA: That sounds great.

CM: Yeah, they're, they're great. They're not that expensive. It's a great gift 'cause they come, like, nested in the other one, and I get the monogrammed for people. They're lovely. But I'll put my toiletries in one, and then the makeup ... my makeup in another one just so I have things separate. If I'm going on, like,

a ... I'm rarely going on a long trip, but I'll try and organize, like, hair is over here, makeup is here. But I'm never really bringing that much stuff.

LA: Yeah, mine, mine's a, just a mess of things.

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... stuffed in there. I feel like I'm already putting so much of my brain into trying to o- somewhat organizing

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... inside of my suitcase that when it gets to my docket, it's just like

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... I've got it down to the sizes I need. Just chuck it all in.

CM: And I have to say that, um, global entry has become a game changer for my toiletries because I hate the idea that they have to be in a see through thing. It's like, I don't want a plastic. I don't want a Ziploc bag. So I just have it in this nice leather thing because I don't have to take them out.

LA: That's great, and I've learned that those little lovely pink glossier Ziplocs—

CM: Oh, people love those. [laughs]

LA: ... which people love does not cut it 'cause they're

CM: Well, they're not clear.

LA: Because they're not

CM: They're bubble wrap.

LA: ... clear. And I've tried. I've always [laughs] tried to use it and every time in Heathrow, they're like

CM: I've heard other people

LA: ... what are you doing?

CM: ... say they use them. I know, and it ... Yes.

LA: But they're pink, and I don't know, and I have

CM: Yeah.

LA: It's, it's, it's, it's tragic that my husband now was, like, in the home of someone else and was, like, "They also had that pink bubble wrap back in their bathroom. What is that?" [laughs]

CM: [laughs]

LA: And I was like, oh, sweet boy.

CM: [laughs]

LA: D- d- don't worry about it. [laughs]

CM: Don't talk about it. [laughs]

LA: Yeah. [laughs] After the break, we address every traveler's nightmare. Okay, another one which speaks to me right now because I literally just went through this, um, which is from Hannah who has an irrational fear that her luggage will get lost and not make it to her destination. She wants to know, do you have any carry-on tips to offset this fear?

CM: Uh, I think this fear is a great one, and I think it's justified. A couple of things. One, I did not come up with this. It was on the Today Show last year, which I don't watch, but a friend of mine works there, and she was like, "Why doesn't everyone do this?" Air tags in every bag you check, and then you can at least know where they are when you can't find them. Second thing, I always have medication for three days. So, like, any pills that I take, I have three days' worth and three days' worth of underwear. And I do that for me, for the kids, whatever. It's just too stressful otherwise. I can't really think of anything else I urgently would need.

LA: So 'cause i- This just happened to me. So I learned what I needed.

CM: Oh, what did you need?

LA: I don't do the underwear thing, and I should. I d- Medication, yes. Um, I also always have my makeup—

CM: Mm.

LA: ... in my carry-on with me.

CM: Yeah.

LA: And then my laptop. Obviously, you have to bring your, your laptop in your carry-on.

CM: Well, tho- I mean—

LA: I mean, those

CM: ... those things you—

LA: ... sorts of things-

CM: ... always bring—

LA: Yeah.

CM: ... anyway.

LA: Um

CM: Yes.

LA: ... and a couple pairs of socks, I often have with me.

CM: Socks is a good addition.

LA: What I wish I'd had was my toothbrush.

CM: Oh, that I usually travel with.

LA: Which you can't al- I ... The thing is it ... The one thing I also think that you can do to offset this fear beyond the fact that there are things in your suitcase that you love and care about

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... and want to get back is that almost everywhere you're traveling to has pharmacies and has shops.

CM: Has a toothbrush. [laughs]

LA: And has a toothbrush.

CM: [laughs]

LA: So yes, it's an added cost but, like, in a pinch you're always gonna be able to get what you need.

CM: Yeah.

LA: But yeah, Air France lost my luggage.

CM: Sounds right, and didn't get it back?

LA: I did get it back

CM: Oh, phew.

LA: ... a few days later.

CM: Okay, fine.

LA: Um, it ... I had a connection in, in Paris and—

CM: Yeah.

LA: ... my poor bag was left in Charles de Gaulle.

CM: Sadly, neither the first nor the last time—

LA: No.

CM: ... that will happen

LA: No, I learned pretty

CM: ... in Charles de Gaulle. [laughs]

LA: ... learned pretty quickly. I was like, oh yeah, this happens in this e- There, there was literally at the baggage claim a ma- in JFK, a man with a list of names from our ... my flight ready to greet us and be like, "Your bag is still in Paris" because it happens so frequently. [laughs]

CM: Oh my god. [laughs]

LA: But yeah, underwear. I never think of for that.

CM: Yeah.

LA: So that's a great idea. Um, and the air tags.

CM: Yeah.

LA: Because there is also, what I understand ... It's rarely lost.

CM: I know, but it's

LA: It's just somewhere

CM: ... just the peace of mind

LA: ... far.

CM: ... knowing where it is.

LA: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But, like, being able to track it. I did once ... I was in the airport in Barcelona on one of those buses that takes you from the gate to the plane.

CM: Sure.

LA: And we were driving along and there was one of those, like, luggage carts, like, hurtling past the runway.

CM: Oh no.

LA: And this suitcase just rolled off the back and, like, tumbled off into the distance and everyone on the bus gasped

CM: Oh no.

LA: ... because it was this moment where everyone was like, "This is how it happens." [laughs]

CM: Oh, my god.

LA: And no one went back for the bag. It was just there

CM: Oh!

LA: ... in the rain

CM: Ah!

LA: ... forgotten. Someone's lovely things.

CM: Devastating.

LA: It was devastating. So I'm haunted by that forever more.

CM: [laughs]

LA: Um, okay. So we have one last question, which is from Danielle who describes herself as a good packer but finds unpacking very hard. She gets home after a long trip and the last thing she wants to do is unpack her suitcase. She says, "Sometimes I leave it for a few days or even up to a week." What are your strategies for unpacking? And I must confess, I've left it for even longer.

CM: It's terrible. It's just the worst. The only way it happens for me in a timely manner is you take it all out of the suitcase. And I just find that I'm more likely to put things away if they're in a heap on my floor than if they're ... I mean, if they're in the suitcase, they're just neatly there in a corner. But you can't ... I mean, the thing that motivates me to even open the suitcase is that I'll have things in my toiletries that I want to get to, um, or my running shoes. But, like, the laundry and the things you wore could, could be there for ages, especially if you were going somewhere in a different climate. So I have to ... I take it all out of the suitcase, put the suitcase away in the closet, and then I just have this eruption of stuff. And I try to put the laundry immediately away, and then it's, like, piece by ... It's a, it's a piece by piece process.

LA: The eruption, uh, is always, I throw it on my bed, which means that

CM: Oh.

LA: ... then

CM: Well, then you have to do it.

LA: I have to do it.

CM: Oh, that's, that's to heavy for me.

LA: Yeah, it's ... Well, you know, there's not much room in my apartment. It's kind of [laughs] ... The bed's one of the only places it can go. [laughs] Well, Chloe, thank you so much for all of these insights and tips, and I like to think that I'm going to be a better packer for it, or at least have aspirations of being a better packer. If people want to find you, follow along with your work at Vogue and your travels, where should they go?

CM: Instagram is a great place to find me. It's @chloemalle. And thank you so much.

LA: I'm Lale Arikoglu, and you can find me on Instagram @lalehannah. Our studio engineer this week is Kirby Glass. The show was mixed by Amar Lal. Jude Kampfner from Corporation for Independent Media is our producer. Special thanks to Jordan Bell for production support with this episode. See you next week.