Women Who Travel

Women Who Travel Podcast: Salem, Then and Now

Host Lale Arikoglu sits down with witch expert Dr. Helen Bergen about the seismic trials that happened in this small Massachusetts town, and dives into WitchTok content from around the globe.
Women Who Travel Podcast Salem Then and Now

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Salem, Massachusetts has long lived in our public consciousness as both the site of the infamous witch trials of 1692 and 1693 and as a Halloween tourist destination depicted in myriad pieces of literature, pop culture, and art. But what is it actually like to spend time there? Lale chats with Dr. Helen Berger from the Women’s Studies Center at Brandeis University, whose written multiple books about witch communities in Salem and elsewhere to find out. Plus, we dive into WitchTok content from around the world.

Lale Arikoglu: Hi, I'm Lale Arikoglu, and this is Women Who Travel, with an end of October deep dive into pagan Halloween that has both ancient and contemporary significance.

Last year, we celebrated witches in Mexico, and in Denmark. Today, we're going to visit Salem, Massachusetts. And take a look at the rise of witch communities online.

Ayla Skinner: So Samhain is coming up. Samhain is also known as Halloween. It's one of the sabots, it's when the veil is the most thinnest. So we do a lot of spirit work, ancestral work on the night of 31st. So I will probably be doing a lot around that 'cause it is obviously the witches New Year two.

LA: More on that later. First, Dr. Helen Berger from the Women's Studies Center at Brandeis University.

Helen Berger: It's a Druid holiday, it's a Celtic holiday, and it is a celebration of fall. And in fall, there's death. It always involves some form of meditation. Focusing on the turning of the year and the Persephone myth of dying, of nature withdrawing into itself. And it always focuses on the self, on what in you is dying.

LA: You know, kind of that mourning period and that celebration, what does that look like? Because I imagine to most people listening, they probably have it all wrong, how they're picturing it.

HB: Well, it depends if people meet in groups or they do this as a solitary practice, but if possible it takes place outside.

And if people gather in a group, they'll gather in a circle. And there will be chanting, and there will be a slow dance, because with death we dance slowly, not jubilantly. And there will be a reading around death and rebirth, because there's a notion that each year we're now going into the death cycle, but then spring will return.

LA: Helen's written four books about witch communities and teenage witches. For her research, she's attended seasonal events as an expert.

HB: You walked in, and they asked you to please walk in quietly, so they asked you to be very quiet. And you walked in one after the other, and you walked through a group of people all dressed in black robes with hoods up, and forming sort of a V.

LA: She's describing a celebration at this time of year. It's in a hall rented from a church in the Boston area.

HB: And you walk  sort of through this tunnel and they were chanting and they sort of, uh, anointed you with water and salt and, uh, you know, candlelight and... smoke and so you walk through the what the elements you had each of the elements and then you walked into this big room dimly lit and everybody was chanting every everybody sitting in circles was chanting and chanting and it was eerie and beautiful and moving all at once.

It sounded almost like a Gregorian chant to me. And you asked, somebody was there and whispered to join one of the circles and there were oh maybe seven small circles with one or two hooded figures in it. And you sat down and there were colored leaves that had been brought in from outside, um, in the circle in a candle.

And at one point people stopped chanting. There was a bell rung and people stopped chanting. And the person started talking about Samhain and death and the passing of the year. And this is what's celebrated in Samhain. And so death is celebrated because death is seen as a necessary part of life.  It's the pagan festival of Samhain, that's S A M H A I N, the traditional Celtic celebration of the dead.

Some groups were led by women, some by men, and everybody talked about somebody who had died that year. And one of the people in the circle I happened to be in spoke about Somebody who was very close with, who he lived with, who died, and in the end he revealed it was his dog, and it was actually very moving.

He waited to say it was his pet, because people discount pet deaths. And other people talked about a parent who died, or a neighbor who died, a friend. And some people talked about somebody who had died a few years ago, because they were still in mourning. And it was a very moving circle. And then, another bell rang.

Everybody mourns their dead. And Wiccans and Druids and Pagans mourn their dead as well, even while they see it as something that is necessary.

LA: You know, I think paganism and Wiccan, Wicca and witches are words that get thrown around a lot. But they're quite broad terms and quite wide reaching. What do they mean?

What does paganism mean?

HB: Well, we talk about contemporary paganism now, as opposed to the blanket term, because you're right, it's used in the Bible and we see it in antiquity, but we're talking about a contemporary religion or set of religions. And so there are a number of them that we could name Wicca and witchcraft and Druidism and heathenry, and there's a whole lot of them, but they share certain things.

They share a focus on the earth, spirituality in some way connected to the earth, to the cycles of the seasons. Most typically there are eight holidays at the beginning and height of each season, but some groups only celebrate six. Some focus more on winter, some more on balancing the whale of the year.

And there's a sense of divinity or spirit being in nature itself. And all of them, or just about all of them, practice magic, some form of magic.

LA: Clearly people are finding a connection to this now, in 2023. What do you think is appealing about it to people today?

HB: Well, you know, the religion, particularly Wicca, came to America in the 1960s, so it has a longer history, the 1960s is now a long time away, and what was initially appealing about it continues to be appealing which is that it speaks to people's sense of environment and placing themselves in environmentalism. A focus on the goddess as well as the god. So girl power or feminism or women power, depending how you want to look at that, how you want to phrase it. And it is also appealing because it focuses on the self.

There's a focus on self and self development.

LA: Do you think that's something that people are looking for? Yeah, I don't want to bring the pandemic into it. I feel like we can never escape it. But do you think in the last few years, you know, I think especially with travel, there's a lot involved with the self.

Do you think that's a reason we've kind of come out of this injured and bruised and looking to take care of ourselves?

HB: I think that added to it. I think it was always there, and particularly for women who had been told that you put others first. The religion helped them take some time, at least, that they put themselves first.

LA: Coming up, Helen Berger takes us on a trip to Salem, a town close to where she lives and works. It's known for its dark history. And also, psychic shops and ghost tours.

On the North Massachusetts coast, 25 miles from Boston, Salem is infamous for a period of persecution, of local people accused of witchcraft and heresy.

HB: There were individual accusations. This was, uh, 1692, and the witch trials were dying down in Europe. At that time, Salem and all of the area in North America were British colonies, and there were witch trials in England, and there were some bigger ones, like in Lancaster, and in Scotland more so, and there were some in Sussex.

But in the American colonies, there were individual accusations in some towns. But in Salem, two hundred, over two hundred people were accused of witchcraft. Nineteen of them were hanged. Witches were not burnt in England or in her colonies. So they were hanged in England and they were hanged in the colonies.

Burnt though in Scotland, just as an aside.

LA: For some reason I'm like, would be in Scotland. It's a  bit darker up there, you know. And one person was crushed to death in Salem as well. And five others died in the prisons.  It wasn't all women, but it was majority women, correct? That's correct.

HB: Five of those hanged and the one person crushed were men.

And most of the men were in a joint accusation with women. Their wife or another woman they were connected with was also accused. I love Salem. I love going to Salem. It's a very exciting place. And, uh, the Peabody Essex Museum, which is in Salem, in the center of Salem, has all of the witchcraft materials.

I would recommend if you go that you see it. They also have, uh, several monuments to those who were killed. And one of them is just out the back door of the Peabody Essex Museum. It's not connected in any way, it just so happens to be there. And it's at the edge of the old cemetery. And it's beautifully done, and it is very tasteful.

In which you see the names, and it almost looks like a tombstone for each person who was executed as a witch.

LA: What does it feel like walking through there? I don't think I'm just speaking for myself, I think there are lots of people who quite like visiting cemeteries when they're travelling. I think they're like fascinating places.

Does it feel moving to walk through it, or does the history feel so far away that it's kind of hard to draw a connection to the present? Even though. There are modern day accusations of witchcraft, not using that word, vilifying of women that take place every day here in America.

HB: I found it very moving.

It's beautifully done. The monument that's in the center of town, there are several others. is very moving. I think it's so moving because it lists each of their names. Each of the stones appear to be very ancient, although they're not. And what you see when you go through that graveyard is all of these men with more than one wife.

No, they were not practicing polygamy. Women were dying in childbirth at very young ages. And so you're taken with this whole time period in which people were dying in childbirth of viruses, of bacterial infections. They didn't have antibiotics. And then these, this whole group who were murdered on the word of children, the accusation came from three girls.

LA: These were accusations from little girls that caused confusion and chaos. A dark historical moment and the subject of Arthur Miller's The Crucible, as well as many films and documentaries. Even pop culture moments like practical magic. One of the accused was an older woman named Rebecca

HB: Nurse. Here's when she was hanged as a witch.

And you could go to her actual home and see her home. And they also will show you where they think her grave is. They weren't allowed to mark the grave of convicted witches, but they believe that from the historic documents, this is probably where on her property she was buried. That's also very moving.

LA: I guess it's, you know, like so many historical sites, they can remind you what humans are capable of.

HB: Right. And what we could do in the name of religion.

LA: You know, you walk through this space, which, you know, just hearing you describe it is so... Moving and also just sort of unsettling and then you go back out into town and you've got all the Halloween decorations up and it's kitsch, right?

HB: I'd say honky tonk, but kitsch is the word you use, a better one. And then you have these shops and so you have both sides of Learning about modern witchcraft, learning about historic witch trials, and something that when you see these actual documents that people wrote, begging for help from other people because they were imprisoned or they were accused, and you see the monuments and you see where they were hanged, and then you see...

The modern day and people offering to read your tea leaves or your palm or and selling trinkets or good luck charms.

And the combination is actually cathartic because you're not too much just in the horror, you're also in the fun. And so it's a combination of both. And one doesn't just visit Salem in October. I know you're saying the Halloween decorations, and that's true. And it's very I'm being

LA: I'm being very narrow minded here.


HB: Salem exists all year round. And I'm going to suggest that one not visit Salem in October because it is so crowded. I would say go when it's not October. And see all, you get to see all those historical events, and all the witch shops are still open downtown. And you can still get a t shirt that says, Stop by for a spell.

LA: I'm gonna need, I need one of those t shirts, but, oh. Apparently I can get that all year round.

HB:. I actually did buy that one, and it's long gone, but I, I actually did own it. I will own up to that.

LA: Um. It's, you know, this is a safe space, look, I'm like desperate for this t shirt, so it's totally fine. Can you both have empathy and skepticism for the town?

Can you both love it and embrace the commercialization as well as the history, but also hold it to task?

HB: It is a commercialization of right now because they're commercializing, they're commercializing what happened, but I think it would be worse to forget what happened. So one has to walk a line between it being commercialized and it being forgotten.

And these people who were falsely accused and got caught up in a true witch hunt should be remembered, and in part because it's commercialized, it's remembered. But some of the practitioners, and that's what people who are witches call themselves practitioners, not believers, but practices. So practitioners, they practice it, they do it, it's not belief, it's doing and experiencing. Find the commercialization not positive for their religion.

LA: After the break...

AS: It's just easier, you know, because everyone goes, oh, WitchTok, WitchTok, WitchTok. So yeah, I do naturally just say WitchTok, because it's easier.


LA: Spend some time on WitchTok, and you'll find a gamut of products, philosophies, and passionate diatribes. Here's a dispatch from a witch out on the cliffs of an ancient part of England.

AS: My name is Ayla kinnerS, but I'm also known as Witch in the Wilderness, and I have a witchcraft shop. I'm based in Tintagel, which is North Cornwall.

Tintagel has, the legend is, that there's King Arthur's castle, and it is literally on the edge of a cliff. And it is absolutely stunning, so if anyone's ever been there, it is breathtaking. You know, you'll never come across a view like it with King Arthur's statue on the edge. And it is. Deep rooted in history, you know, there is so much and people travel all around the world just to go to that one village.

So Tintagel has definitely got a vibe. There are some that claim maybe there is a portal, and that is why. I mean, my theory is that in Cornwall we have a lot of granite, and in granite is quartz. And quartz is a massive energy conductor. We're right next door to Boss Castle, where the Witchcraft Museum is.

That's full of magic and... Cool has extreme history, you know, it goes back Neolithic. We're on the edge of the moors here. We can see, I can literally see the moors from my bedroom window. And it, it's got stone circles everywhere. You know, as a child, we used to go for walks and we'd stumble across stone circles.

I've always been into the witchcraft and sort of spiritualist side of things from a young age. I saw and heard spirit from a child. My parents would tell you weird and wacky stories about how I'd go into buildings and say I'd seen people or past family members. And I kind of rolled with it and then it sort of got to teenager and my interest really peaked.

And there was a crystal shop in my local town and I'd go and spend my pocket money in there. And then it literally just grew from that. I've been in numerous circles, I've joined lots of different covens and studied for probably around 15 years. My motto is to do your own magic is stronger. So anything that you do personally, it has your, your intention in it and everything else.

So yes, we don't need the gimmicks. We don't need the cauldrons, you know, literally a simple flame and some water and we can get well away, but we are human and we do quite like the trinkets and we do quite like our old to slip pretty. It is quite a thing to suddenly go, Hey, I study witchcraft, and I'm a witch.

You know, and sort of people go, Uh, right, okay, and they can either laugh, or, but I'm, I'm, I'm okay with that now. So, my children, who are ten and eight now, they love it that their mum's a witch.

So, TikTok had sort of just come out, and, you know, you sort of saw the people dancing on there, and it seemed like quite a high energy, high vibe, quite a happy place. And it was actually a friend of mine who said, Do you know what, Ailey? You've got really great sense of humor, and I think you'd fit quite well on there.

So, that was when I started. And I had seen a niche straight away, that there was a need for people wanting to learn about paganism, about witchcraft. And I thought, with WitchTok, you can give instant witchy advice. Within 15 seconds, you can tell someone how to make their day better, how to help themselves, you know, add a bit of positivity, remove a bit of negativity.

So WitchTalk, there are many creators that do sell their products through there, but I tend not to, because I feel that there has to be an exchange. So if I give you my tips and my knowledge, then maybe you can get something from me. And I also don't like the force feeding of mass selling, that's not what I'm about.

Everyone has different opinions on curses, um, and black magic or dark magic. I believe that we need a balance, just like nature has the good side of nature, and you have the awful side of nature. And I do believe we do need, you know, that light and that dark. Ethically, someone would have to do something very, very, very dark for me to...

warrant it. I think, you know, we all have the light and dark in us. We all have that streak that we get angry. We curse with our words. Words can be equally very powerful or what we speak, how we speak to people is very powerful. There would be a time where I would need to curse. So if somebody came in and murderer, child rapist, molester, anything, it does warrant.

A curse or a hex, what I would tell that customer or that person that it will take something from you somewhere, whether that's energy wise, whether that's something in your life. When you are dealing with the energy level that you need to put that sort of curse out, it will take something from you. But I would definitely help somebody to curse if they really needed it for that sort of level of darkness.

LA: Just one voice among an incredible range of personalities and opinions you'll find on WitchTalk.

HB enjoys WitchTalk, but online or in person she believes communities fulfill basic needs for companionship. It sounds like these ceremonies and circles and covens, ultimately they're offering sanctuary and some sort of comradeship. Would you agree?

AS: Definitely the covens. The covens offer a great deal of friendship and caring, like a congregation, very similar to a congregation.

LA: If Litsteners want to go to an alternative pagan Halloween. Where can they go? How can they find

AS: You could go to WitchTok and you could watch a video or you could join online. But the best thing is to go online and to look for an open ritual near me. Or you can go into an occult bookstore and sometimes they're listed in the old fashioned way on a bulletin board.

Or you can go on an electronic bulletin board. And if you go, You should find out what the group expects. Some groups would like you, if they're renting a space, they'll ask that you chip in to help, uh, with the expense of the rental. You know, a few dollars to pay for the rental. If it's outside, not. It's a good idea to bring a flashlight to find your way if you're going to an outside ritual.

But most groups will ask that you then do not turn them on during the ritual. And of course, if you're going to an outdoor ritual, dress appropriately. Comfortable shoes, something that you could walk in the forest in. And if you're going to be outside in the fall, remember you're going to be standing.

You'll be, you might be dancing and moving, but you'll be standing still part of the time. And it's very easy to get cold. Remember you're attending somebody else's religious ceremony. And so one has to be prepared to be quiet, to not ask questions until the end, that this is a spiritual and a religious ceremony for people.

And that you'll be asked to participate, so you can't just sit at the end. You'll be asked to... To dance and to, um, hum and to, you don't have to worship any gods or goddesses that you don't believe in. No one would ask you to do that, but you will be in a circle. So I would say that you have to be prepared to participate to some degree.

You're coming as a guest and you have to remember all those things that your parents told you about being a guest. And double it for a religious ceremony. I think

LA: that is a very good rule to live by. This was so great. I feel like I've learned so much. And like, it was really enjoyable. Thank you for bringing all of these stories and all of this history and modern context.

LA: Next week, New Yorker writer Susan Orlean talks about some of the many memorable characters she's encountered and described on her travels. I'm Lale Arikoglu, and you can find me on Instagram at Laleh Hanna. Our engineers are Jake Loomis and Gabe Koroga. The show's mixed by Amar Lal. Jude Kampfner from Corporation for Independent Media is our producer. See you next week.